Practical Branding in 2022 w/ Dustin Moore

Skyler Irvine:

Dustin’s the founder and owner of Ivio Agency, which specializes in small business branding. And I know you for your help and website and app development, but I also know you do more than that, especially in the brand narrative space including some brand narrative workshops. So first off, Dustin, thanks for joining me on the show today. Second, please feel free to put in your own words what Ivio Agency is today and a little bit of how you got to this point.

Dustin Moore:

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, Skyler. I really appreciate it and excited to have this conversation with you. Yeah, my background is definitely much more on the technical side of things, sort of my first career, if you will, websites, custom application development and all things technical. As I went through my 20s and early 30s, I sort of fell out of love with the programming and moved much more over to the design and narrative side because we’re working as I was going through this process, developing these projects. They’re really long, they’re really involved, fun to work on and great teamwork involved, but not a lot of fulfillment or satisfaction at the end of the day when you get home and trying to figure out like, “What’s the impact my work is actually having and how is it touching people’s lives?”

Dustin Moore:

And one thing I was always cognizant of and would see is that when people would respond so much more to the look and feel to the logos being designed, the imagery and the things that wrapped up the applications that we were developing, but not the applications themselves. And there’s an experience where we designed a logo without really putting too much like intentional thought into it, but we did hit the mark. And the person framed it and signed it and sent it to us and said every day when she sits on her desk, she looks at this logo we designed and inspires her and motivates her to tackle her job and attack her day. And have impact in people’s lives through the work she does.

Dustin Moore:

And at that moment as I was hearing that story, I never experienced anything like that and the satisfaction I felt in doing that. And that was when I decided, “You know what? I think the machines are coming for a lot of these jobs and I want to be in a space long-term in my career where I’m able to work with people on things that matter and that they genuinely respond well and appreciate the efforts.”

Dustin Moore:

And I made a really great decision in making that transition over to more branding and design and brand narrative. These things that have a more emotional connection to their business and impact their lives and, fill people with pride and inspiration and motivation. All these intangibles that add up to immensely valuable things that people ultimately use to motivate themselves or inspire themselves. So that’s how we got over to coming up with the branding and narrative side.

Dustin Moore:

And then we’ve developed a workshop over the years to create a very collaborative, fun and creative experience where we can involve our clients and their key stakeholders in the process in a real intimate format without over-complicating the process. Really kind of leveling the playing field and making the whole process as accessible as possible while still creating the ability to attack the requests, the job, the actual requirements of their branding needs with great intention and a thorough process that’s rooted in a framework, which I did really appreciate having on the development side.

Dustin Moore:

So I’ve kind of taken some of those lessons from development projects and try to bring that into the branding side and create a framework from which everyone can kind of understand how we created this, this process, why it works, and then just go through the process together with us in a collaborative fashion. And feel like they’re able to contribute, they’re able to understand kind of level that playing field amongst all the people involved.

Skyler Irvine:

So on the topic of branding, it can be confusing for someone that’s definitely on the outside and the closer and deeper you go with branding and personal branding, there’s so many layers and levels. So where Ivio is today, what does the ideal client look like for you? At what level of the brand stage are they? How big? How small? What is kind of the ideal client that fits the job for Ivio?

Dustin Moore:

It’s certainly more personal brands and smaller brands, early stage brands, but really I would say brand passionate people. People who care about their brand and want to take it seriously where they understand and see the value of branding. And leveraging all these intangibles and going through the process, doing it with intention to where it’s a reflection of many of these peoples, either a group or an individual. Next to their children and family, their brands that they start are right up there with some of the most important things in their life.

Skyler Irvine:

So what’s the best way for a client to prepare themselves, helps to get the most out of working with your agency? Are they coming at you too early or do sometimes people come at you too late? They’ve started a bunch of stuff on their own. Maybe spent too much money on the wrong things and now they’re bringing in you to fix things, but you still have to charge more to kind of fix a lot of those things.

Dustin Moore:

People come to us from kind of from all stages. It’s actually not uncommon to have a failed reining experience be the impetus for them engaging with another agency. The thing that we want and try to encourage as much as possible is that the decisions we’re making are rooted in something that is highly intentional and based upon the research and strategic positioning that they ultimately need or want depending on their various differentiators.

Dustin Moore:

Obviously looking at your competitive landscape, what other people in your space are doing well and not well as well. Sometimes things that you don’t like tell us so much more about things you do like. So kind of exploring both sides of what I do like about this or that and what I don’t like about this or that. And then also encouraging people to have fragmented and/or nuanced feedback about those examples. And when they’re able to talk to us like, “Hey, I like this piece about this and this piece about that.” It’s easy. It’s not difficult for us to kind of take those pieces together. And the reality is it ends up being a collage of different inspiration or example that we look at to start. And we’re kind of feeding the process and priming process.

Skyler Irvine:

So tell me a little bit more about the differentiator of being a client of yours and the workshop specifically.

Dustin Moore:

Right. So I said before this journey even began, I had the privilege of being able to sit in on many branding workshops mostly just for awareness from a technical standpoint. But I’ve seen many different approaches from big New York agencies delivering these behemoth brand guides for an obscene amount of money down to freelancers who are creating mood boards and using more of their feelings that direct the process of what feels right versus what is right potentially. Where there’s not much intention in the process, but they’re working more directly with their client trying to basically just hit the mark and the mind’s eye of the client, but they might not be adding a lot of the strategic components in there.

Dustin Moore:

So I had the opportunity to kind of see many different ranges over many different years. And I was genuinely shocked about the variety of processes, that there is not a one best way to generate a brand. And many of them end up being somewhat chaotic processes or just very emotion-based like what are people liking? What’s resonating on a purely look and feel standpoint? And then the strategic positioning and messaging and targeting and identification of certain personas not even part of the discussion or happens after the fact.

Dustin Moore:

And then I started formulating my own sort of opinion about … Coming from this engineering background where everything has an objective process and an objective outcome, knowing if something works or not is so much easier on the engineering side. Whereas on the creative side, 10 people can look at a logo and give it 10 different scores, if you will, one to 10 and they’re all right. There’s no one way how people receive it and respond to it. It’s their own subjective opinion.

Dustin Moore:

So that’s a great challenge. And so when we started building out the workshop, the goal is to create a process that would allow us to 1. Still have that real fun approach, a real collaborative approach where the creative process is still really front and center and that people can’t participate it in because that’s what most of our clients, they love that part the most. That’s the fun part of it. And we don’t want to eliminate that, but at the same time we want to anchor it in a system.

Dustin Moore:

So the workshop we’ve developed is based on primarily storytelling archetypes from Carl Jung’s work and psychology of these prototypes or stereotypical personas that exist in our collective psyche as a culture and species really. These archetypes are timeless they’re found throughout the world. So these are the hero, the magician, the sage like Yoda and whatnot, the caregiver, if you will. And when you start thinking about that like everyone actually understands these pretty innately without much coaching or education needed.

Dustin Moore:

What it allows us to do is have a framework from which to start our conversations, include everybody from the brand owner down to maybe their administrative assistant. And it’s something that everybody can participate in. And then also equally important after the fact our brand guides and the outcome of the workshop. We really want it to be practical and useful. So if you hire a new team member that is going to be working on behalf of the brand or doing social media and writing captions or writing copy for your website, that the brand guide actually is the best thing to give them.

Skyler Irvine:

What does the perfect brand guide look like?

Dustin Moore:

Yeah, so I love this question. This was a big point of pride when creating this workshop was that the brand guide needs to be practical and functionally useful. It should really only have things that are actually useful like usage of, “Hey, don’t use your logo this way and that way.” That’s great, but how to message your brand and we actually include writing examples and we specifically underline key phrases or adjectives and the various active verbs that should resonate with your audience based on your archetypal mix, wherever you end up there to know that this is a way to write about it, and this is good, this is better, and this is best.

Dustin Moore:

And our standard is that someone will be able to look that brand guide over within a matter of 20, 30 minutes as they read through it. And then at the end, they should be able to answer in their own words accurately what’s on brand for that brand without actually needing to go through the workshop. And the archetypes play a huge role in that because people pick up on them, they understand them, and there’s generally a cohesive understanding of those archetypes. Sometimes there’s some overlap that needs to be clarified here and there, but by and large, people are really able to pick it up and run with it.

Dustin Moore:

And then actually having the writing examples and a word bank of words like, “This is a good word. This is a better word. This is the best word.” And we often take that stand and approach in the workshop. We’re not just trying to do a good brand. We’re not just trying to do a better brand. We are trying to create the best brand for you, the one that’s most accurate.

Skyler Irvine:

So I’d say most of my audience are small business owners, entrepreneurs, professionals. It’s been a hell of a year. It’s been a hell of a two years. I’d love to get your thoughts and have you kind of explain anything that you’ve learned about yourself over these last couple years, both personally and professionally. And how are you kind of taking those lessons moving forward?

Dustin Moore:

Ooh, that’s a tough question. Definitely a rollercoaster. I think everyone’s been on a similar rollercoaster. And one thing that I personally have seen is everyone has experienced different ups and downs for different reasons at different times through these pandemic months and years. Kind of the early stages, we were all in it together and early lockdown, but then many people handled those opportunities differently. Like I’m going to focus on family or other people are going to work on a personal project. Other people who were maybe overworked saying, “You know what? There’s never in a better time to have a forced reset and able to maybe check in more spiritually”

Dustin Moore:

And I found that just talking with people has been extremely helpful, especially going through difficult times. Certainly at least in my personal experience, I experienced some high highs and some low lows during the whole process to a point where I was in new territory as I’ve never really experienced anxiety about what might happen with the business. There was so much unknown in the early stages of the pandemic and coming to terms of that.

Dustin Moore:

And then also having to just be gentle with yourself and accepting of the realities of the situation and not everything’s under our control, whereas leading into it I would’ve thought I would’ve communicated that control aspect and the ability to stay on top of the variables in my life was much easier. And then once I lost control of them, you kind of just need to surrender to the circumstances.

Dustin Moore:

So what have I seen with clients and as it deals with the workshop itself? So one, actually, I found that communicating over Zoom, which was not our M.O. We were very much an in-person workshop. We found that sharing creative designs over Zoom is probably preferable.

Skyler Irvine:

Yeah, that’s a great take, especially with designing a website, which is going to end up on a computer by being on your computer to visually see it. And everyone else is on their own computer via Zoom making quick edits, quick changes. It’s almost the perfect concept for website design specifically. So I think that’s actually really interesting.

Skyler Irvine:

I have heard you discuss the power and values of intangibles in life and in business. Can you explain what you mean by this and why you find intangibles so important?

Dustin Moore:

This is something I’m very passionate about these days coming from this programming background, objective answers to questions and not really leveraging the power of intangibles. Now, the example that I like to share the most that kind of exemplifies this is using the Apple brand as an example. If you looked at the P&L sheet of Apple, you could not put your finger on any one line item and say, “That’s the value of the Apple brand. There it is.” Yet, it is undeniable that the value of their branding is immeasurably large. And when you think about that it’s, “Wow, that’s a very powerful intangible and enthusiasm, passion.”.

Dustin Moore:

If we’re able to go through this workshop experience, produce a brand that someone feels so great about in their heart like they feel that they attack their job with some more enthusiasm. They’re eager to share this brand with more people, they have more confidence about the work they’re doing and sharing that. All of those things add up to make a major impact. These are all intangibles that you couldn’t put your finger on and say, “That’s the value of passion. That’s the value of enthusiasm. That’s the value of confidence.”

Skyler Irvine:

What do you find so enjoyable about the process of building a new brand? And is it more or less challenging to start from scratch or to build off and grow an existing brand that maybe has stagnant did a bit?

Dustin Moore:

So often different approaches. So in a strategic we ran, someone that has sort of reached the end of life for their current version and they have very specific strategic goals and audiences and business objectives ends up being more of a technical workshop and experience. Obviously we do mix in much of the creative, but there’s a specific goal in mind. There’s a reason why they’re coming to the table. They’re not happy with this either. Maybe they were bought out or they’re expanding into new markets. And they need to make sure that their brand is reflecting that.

Dustin Moore:

I appreciate those much larger challenges in bigger projects. On the smaller startup side depending on the sophistication of the owner, is it their first business? Is it their fourth? Have they gone through these exercises before? Try to meet them where they are and make them feel that this process is exhaustive and is going to cover everything. They’re in good hands. That we’re asking the right questions in the right order. And making them feel like where they end up is something that they can have extreme confidence and pride in.

Dustin Moore:

And also feel like it wasn’t just given to them that it was created through a collaborative process. They were heard. And they’re not just going to put the experience on the shelf and say, “Oh, that’s nice.” Or you get the brand guide and say, “Okay, now I have my brand identity, but there’s nothing useful there.”

Skyler Irvine:

So I know we’ve talked about this before, but I’d love you to kind of explain it briefly to the audience is your three phases of bringing a new idea or brand to life.

Dustin Moore:

Basically the creative process, we go through these three phases and they are very distinct and have sort of different disciplines, and things we want to be looking out for in each of them. Origination is the process of actually coming up with a novel idea. Origination then goes into the development category, how you’re actually working through those ideas and building upon them and testing out different ways to communicate the concept. And the development is a large part of what our workshops actually focus on. So the communication you is how are we actually sharing this idea with the public and where should we do it? How should we do it?

Dustin Moore:

And a good example is to just look at historical concepts throughout history here. So we’re all very lucky to live in a free and open society, but a thousand years ago it was more of a futile system and freedom was not something widely talked about or available to the vast majority of people. But the first person who came out 1,000, 2,000 years ago and said, “Hey, everyone should be free and not have to live according to the whims of their ruler.” I mean, that person’s life was likely in jeopardy from that said ruler. That guy said, “That’s a terrible idea.” The communication was all wrong.

Dustin Moore:

So it’s just really important like, “Hey, you got to make sure that you are looking at the right ways and right time to communicate your message and trying to find those ideal situations.” Sometimes you have more than one shot to try to communicate something, but you only have one shot of a first impression. The first impressions are the most powerful impressions and making sure you kind of look at the different categories of how you’re developing the brand and how you’re communicating it and the right timing all goes into what would hopefully be creating an ideal situation for maximum impact of the messaging for it to be received and understood.

Skyler Irvine:

Let’s finish up with some rapid fire questions before we get out of here. Pretty tactical stuff. What’s your favorite productivity hack and how did you discover it?

Dustin Moore:

That is a good question. They come and go to be, quite honest. Clear communication, so actually I will say not being afraid to pick up the phone in this day and age. We’re typing so much and I am a victim of the long email, the long narrative email. And when in reality, a phone call can be so much more effective and brief. People are afraid of getting trapped on the phone, but being able to call someone and set the table, “I have a quick question. It won’t be that long for you.” And then actually having them repeat it back and make sure that that connection was genuinely made.

Skyler Irvine:

That’s a really great hack, to be honest. I like where you went with that. What would you say is an underrated tool that is indispensable to your job?

Dustin Moore:

So specifically there is a … and this was induced through COVID. I’m a whiteboard because I love to be able to kind of explain my thoughts on a whiteboard and when COVID hit, I lost all my whiteboards. There was no more team huddles around the whiteboard. So I was able to find a tool called Miro or the real-time whiteboard, M-I-R-O. And it’s an infinite whiteboard. It has all the UML and tracking and post-its, you’ll able to do video calls on there. So it’s virtualized whiteboards. And I have really, really enjoyed using that tool and that we’ve adopted it.

Dustin Moore:

We do all of our workshops through Miro actually. And we can Zoom out of a slide and have some margin areas, put little notes on there, and we’re able to export them and send them a copy of it. They can collaborate with them. If someone’s remote, they’re able to go in and collaborate and kind of leave their own notes in there as well. And they have great video conferencing and just a lot of great interactions and different features that they’ve built out.

Skyler Irvine:

I’m a huge whiteboard guy. I love whiteboards, I love multiple whiteboards, standing, sitting, whatever. So this is awesome. It was M-I-R-O I believe? So I’ll post a link if I misspelled that. Off the top of your head, is this pay one to own it forever? Is this subscription? Is this free? Do you know the cost of something like this?

Dustin Moore:

It is a subscription model. There is a very robust free tier. If you want to do video sharing with your team and more advanced collaborative features, it is a per seat license very similar to Slack. $5 a month per user. We found that we’re able to share users pretty easily and have like one general account. Like I have my own as well and then a few key members of the team have their own account.

Dustin Moore:

So it’s not one where each person at the company necessarily needs to have that. And it is not required that everybody participating in the presentations have an account. So there are shareable links and you can create a board and share with anybody. And anybody can use it without having to have an account.

Skyler Irvine:

So other than your current occupation, what is an occupation that you would like to try possibly later in life, possibly in another life?

Dustin Moore:

Without doubt farming and gardening, actually. My brother has a farm on Maui, organic farm. Talk about brand passionate people. I mean, he is up there in the 99.9 percentile of being brand passionate, extremely authentic about what he does. He loves what he does out there. And I’ve had the pleasure and honor of kind of growing up on the farm two weeks at a time as I travel out there and visit him. And the amount of gratitude that he experiences on a daily basis from those he works with and interfaces with would blow your mind. Just full of gratitude.

Dustin Moore:

At the farmer’s market, he’s getting thanked regularly. “You’re nourishing my family and you’re doing this and this.” The things he’s producing and he’s growing them. And this is the kind of the combination of the real outcome of a product like, “Oh yeah. I grew that.” And understanding more about what goes into your body, why. I’m here in Downtown Phoenix. I’m a city guy through and through, but at the same time I really appreciate that side of it.

Dustin Moore:

And specific gardening, I have a dream of having an orchid, a flower bed, and being able to kind of sell orchids on Maui in my twilight years kind of pick a spot overlooking. And orchids come in so many different colors and shapes and they’re a very fascinating flower. And it just seems like so peaceful and tranquil. It sounds nice to kind of sit down in your balcony with a cup of coffee overlooking a nice little orchid farm or something firsthand experience and producing all of that.

Skyler Irvine:

That’s awesome. What are two or three books you’d recommend to my audience and why those books?

Dustin Moore:

So there’s a book called Visual Intelligence. That is a wonderful book. I want to say Amy Herman or something very similar to that. Excuse me. I don’t have off the top of my head, but it’s a book about the power of observation. So it was written by a fine arts historian that ended up teaching law enforcement and detectives on a state and federal level about how to observe crime scenes and different things to see what other people may not have seen. And the book is really well-written. It has a lot of visual examples. They’ll show some piece of fine art and like, “Hey, write down and think about everything you see about this.”

Dustin Moore:

And then on the next stage you go through the exercise and then she starts pointing out all these different things like, “Oh, what time of day did you think it was? Where was the light source? What do you think the ribbon on her neck signifies about her class?” Or just all sorts of different things and it makes you think like to really see something in a novel in a unique way, you must pause and do it with intention.

Dustin Moore:

And one of the habits, so I have a beautiful dog that I take on a walk every single day. And the one thing that that book taught me was I want to pick a corner and spend two or three minutes on it somewhere in my dog walk. And I’m going to look at something that I see every day for the few years and look at it in a way I’ve never seen it before, and learn something new about it. Like how windows on a building were orientated. And how many nails do you think was used in this construction project or that, or how old do you think this tree is? And what do you think this blemish on the sidewalk came from>.

Dustin Moore:

And you realize that there’s so much information that we just overlook and don’t really process, but there’s so much beauty and nuance that can come from that. And so much to learn when you stop and pause, and it does require sort of intentional observation. And that book is so great about not only making that case, but arming you with tips to kind of leverage it in your everyday life. Hey, the next time you’re at a stoplight waiting for a minute for the light to turn, look at something in a way you’ve never looked at it before and be critical about it. It’s super interesting.

Skyler Irvine:

You mean don’t check Instagram?

Dustin Moore:

Don’t check Instagram. Yeah, living in the moment and creating those circumstances and putting yourself in that position.

Skyler Irvine:

Something that’s helped me personally and everything you’ve said describes my growing, increasingly growing passion for photography is seeing the things you see every single day, but in a different way. And once you can figure out your camera, which is its own set of growth is going out into the world and really trying to see things differently. And going from a 35 millimeter lens to an 85, how much things change. And lowering, crouching down to the ground looking up versus climbing a hill and looking down. And all of things really kind of force you to slow down and appreciate things you see all the time, but in a much different way.

Skyler Irvine:

So when you’re describing that, man, it reminds me so much of going out with a camera. As someone who’s had back surgery and has really struggled to try to get back into moving and being active, it’s one thing to say you’re going to go on a three-mile walk and try to improve your time. It’s another thing to go outside with a camera and I started shooting on film and just saying, “Okay, I’m going to go shoot all 36 shots and then walk home.”

Skyler Irvine:

And when you’re doing that, maybe I’ll be gone for two hours without realizing it. I don’t know how many miles I’ve walked, but it doesn’t feel like it’s exercise. It felt like a creative endeavor. And that’s been a real fun experiment for me. And to be honest, it sounds so similar to how you’ve just described this book. So I’m excited to check out Visual Intelligence. Was there any other books that I jump out to you?

Dustin Moore:

So the Art of Thinking is a great book. So this is a common for many of the listeners, probably common subject matter. It’s the classic sort of take on a personality test who you are and how other people categorize themselves, but this book stresses and it does in a very unique way I feel. But what it actually does is it helps you. They really stress how to identify what other people’s personality types are without them taking a test. So not only knowing who you are, but being able to check the mannerisms, habits, words that people may use in order to help categorize them into these categories. And then tips and tricks for how a left brain person might want to communicate to an engineer, to a creative, which is definitely something that we do here at the agency all the time to communicate those topics back and forth and sort of translate.

Dustin Moore:

It’s really helpful. And the strategies of like, “Hey, it’s not always about us.” And kind of understanding what other people need and want. And their communication interaction is really important too. Some people just want to be heard and you might be having a combative experience like going over what’s the best way creative and whatnot. Whereas if you just pause and say, “I really do appreciate your feedback and I’d like to include you in this process” as opposed to just giving them something and say, “Hey, what do you think?” Where they want to leave a mark. Where if you say, “Hey, I really value that.”

Dustin Moore:

It’s a little bit of an ego subversion, but it goes so long. And then you end up turning people who might be fighting certain designs into being genuinely advocates for your design. Just because you pause and kind of pay them a certain respect and you kind of realize, “Oh, that’s someone I’m dealing with or that’s really important to them may not be important to me.” But what ultimately is important in these examples is that we provide genuine, authentic feedback and are both invested in having the best outcome for that project we’re collaborating on. And then if I can give a third.

Skyler Irvine:

Hit me.

Dustin Moore:

Metaphors We Live By is one that I just recently finished a great book by a combination of researchers throughout the world for how people actually communicate messages through metaphors. So if you look at these origination, development, communication categories, I kind of look to identify books that kind of help me with each category and build it out. And Metaphors We Live By, a fascinating book. So much more in depth where I would say 80 to 90% of the communication we have on a daily basis is actually rooted in metaphor and we don’t even know it.

Dustin Moore:

And going through that book and actually understanding how people create their metaphors can kind of add some clarity to how you might want to communicate to other people in certain ways. And making sure that you are using consistent metaphors and not confusing people is really helpful. And just genuinely interesting. I’m like a word nerd and just phrasing and communication is always looking to how to improve dialogue and have clear communication.

Dustin Moore:

Because unfortunately a lot of times when communicating, you just get the knowing nod and then if you were to go back and say, “Hey, did that thing I mentioned a couple minutes ago, did you get what I mean there?” It’s like, “Oh, I think so.” And if that was an important point that you wanted to make, it often can be lost. So that book has kind of armed me with a lot of interesting food for thought about how we structure conversation, especially when communicating new or novel ideas I think is really helpful.

Skyler Irvine:

What’s one question that you’d wish I had asked you and how would you have answered it?

Dustin Moore:

Ooh. It might be sort of obvious or but why did you move into this space? Why are you doing what you do? And why are you pursuing this passion and decided to kind of leave one career and move to the other? Especially to be in a creative space where you’re moving from objective answers, objective questions, subjective answers, subjective questions. But it’s just so much more challenging and it’s so much more I feel like a human endeavor.

Dustin Moore:

Programming feels robotic in a sense. You are dealing with machines and almost is by design. And in the world we’re living in you extrapolate out the technology that we have when the iPhone’s not even 15-years-old. It’s mind-blowing to think about what the next 15 years are going to look like the next 30 or 50 years.

Dustin Moore:

There’s self-driving cars. We used to code out all of our websites and tables by hand. And now everything is how much easier. Point & Click and Canva and everything seems to be moving towards being able to make these things much more accessible, which is wonderful and great. I totally encourage it, but it feels like the proverbial machine gods are sort of coming for a lot of people’s jobs at one time or another. And being able to have a hand in a place in the creative space, that’s the last thing they’re going to be able to come for.

Dustin Moore:

Originality and imagination is not something that can be programmed or it’s going to be the last thing that they really do get. So I wanted to put myself right in that space of being able to touch people’s hearts and minds and being able to draw and evoke emotional responses. And to move people and just the connection component to be one with our fellow people.

Dustin Moore:

What does it mean to be human? What will it mean to be human? What’s going to happen when we don’t have to work as much or whatnot? And what are those things that are going to be left that we are drawn to? And I feel like it’s going to be more of the arts and culture in this subjective creative space is what people I believe are going to latch onto. And I’m really excited to continue growing in that direction and making that a big part of my future and everyone’s future really.

Skyler Irvine:

Well, man, you just brought up a lot of fun ideas. We’ll have to do a part two sometime, but we’re out of time at this point. So let me know where’s the best place for people to learn more about you and sign up for one of these workshops?

Dustin Moore:

So the website is ivioagency.com. I-V-I-O agency.com. You can learn more about our branding process there and connect with our team. And then I myself am on Instagram as well at @dust.n, just D-U-S-T dot N. If you want to connect with me there, one of my 2022 goals is to be much more invested in social media. Kind of waffled back and forth over many years. We’ve talked about it in the past. Whereas I think it may be one of my only regrets that I actually have is being shy about social media and being overly concerned about some privacy concerns.

Dustin Moore:

Because I went from these platforms that allow you to share everything to not really sharing anything. And life is so much better shared. So that’s something that I’ve definitely come to realize and appreciate much more over the last few years as I get older here. And I’m looking to make up for some lost time and engage with friends and family. And then the wider people, wider audience out there who are also interested and curious about some of these same topics as well.

Skyler Irvine:

Well, I’m so glad we were able to connect on this. Dustin, thank you very much. Happy New Year. And I look forward to circling back and doing a part two hopefully early in 2022.

Dustin Moore:

That’d be amazing. Thank you so much, Skyler. I appreciate and love the opportunity you presented here. It was a lot of fun.

Skyler Irvine:

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Niche, Please! Podcast. To make sure you never miss an episode. Please subscribe to this channel or sign up for my newsletter at skylerirvine.com. I’d also really appreciate it if you left us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.